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Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped? Bernie Sanders wants to know who owns America?

#16741 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2020-November-04, 15:30

View Postpilowsky, on 2020-November-04, 13:48, said:

America is total shitshow.

You and your post are a shitshow. Despite a difficult time America is still a force for good in the world. Offer your support rather than just trolling an online forum. And no, you don't get to trash an entire folk because of one person. Grow up or f*ck off.
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#16742 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2020-November-04, 15:42

View PostZelandakh, on 2020-November-04, 15:30, said:

You and your post are a shitshow. Despite a difficult time America is still a force for good in the world. Offer your support rather than just trolling an online forum. And no, you don't get to trash an entire folk because of one person. Grow up or f*ck off.


Look, I have a 15 Watt light-bulb isn't as dim as you that wants to talk to me. Why don't you and your little trolls see if you can get a group rate at the anger management centre?
non est deus ex machina; även maskiner behöver lite kärlek, J'ai toujours misé sur l'étrange gentillesse des robots.
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#16743 User is online   y66 

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Posted 2020-November-04, 16:07

Matt Yglesias said:

And it’ll keep going up as California votes come in

Dave Wasserman at 4PM EST said:

Biden's popular vote lead (3 million, 2.2%) just surpassed Clinton's popular vote lead (2.9 million, 2.1%) from 2016.


Matt Yglesias said:

Just as a bit of of context:

— Carter got 50.08% in 1976
— Reagan got 50.75% in 1980
— Clinton got 43.01% in 1992

This is a resounding repudiation of Trump qua Trump. Democrats’ problem, which is not small, is that the senate is massively biased against them.

If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
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#16744 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2020-November-04, 16:20

Maybe I shouldn't respond to this since i don't really know anything about about World politics but ....

View PostZelandakh, on 2020-November-04, 15:30, said:

Despite a difficult time America is still a force for good in the world.

I don't think so anymore.

During the war in ex-Yugoslavia I thought that thanks God that we have the Americans to do the dirty work so that we Europeans can keep praising ourselves for our peacefulness, knowing that it doesn't cost us anything because Uncle Sam will pay the bill. Pax Americana.

Older generations may feel a similar gratefulness for WWII and Korea. Israel, Taiwan and West Berlin may also have been toast without US support. Then there was Vietnam and Chile and Iran etc. but I think it is fair to say that during the cold war, USA was per saldo a force for good.

At the moment it seems to me that China is a force for good in the World, and the best that can be said about USA is that it is isolating itself.
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#16745 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2020-November-04, 16:44

View Posthelene_t, on 2020-November-04, 16:20, said:

Maybe I shouldn't respond to this since i don't really know anything about about World politics but ....

I don't think so anymore.

During the war in ex-Yugoslavia I thought that thanks God that we have the Americans to do the dirty work so that we Europeans can keep praising ourselves for our peacefulness, knowing that it doesn't cost us anything because Uncle Sam will pay the bill. Pax Americana.

Older generations may feel a similar gratefulness for WWII and Korea. Israel, Taiwan and West Berlin may also have been toast without US support. Then there was Vietnam and Chile and Iran etc. but I think it is fair to say that during the cold war, USA was per saldo a force for good.

At the moment it seems to me that China is a force for good in the World, and the best that can be said about USA is that it is isolating itself.


I imagine we are still a force.
It would be hoping for too much to expect we will always be a force for good.
That being acknowledged, we need to do better.
Often, very often, responsible behavior will be good for us as well as for others.
Machiavelli said (I guess) that "A man who tries in every way to be good will meet his ruin among the many who are not good".

Probably true. It does not follow that a man should try in every way to be bad, That seldom ends well either. Same for countries, I think.

Anyway, I hope for better. If others are not all that happy with the US right now, I understand that. Neither am I.
Ken
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#16746 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2020-November-04, 16:50

Wow Helene, that is quite a statement:

View Posthelene_t, on 2020-November-04, 16:20, said:

At the moment it seems to me that China is a force for good in the World,

How so? Remember they do have to make up for a million Uighurs in concentration camps, as part of a large-scale genocide. Along with abolishing democracy in China, contrary to its obligations in an international treaty.

And of course there is no bigger threat to free speech world-wide than China:
- Marriott Employee Fired After Liking Tweet That Offended Chinese Government
- The NBA lost 400 million of revenue over the last year because the general manager (Daryl Morey)of one of its teams tweeted "Fight For Freedom. Stand With Hong Kong.", causing China to essentially cancel the NBA from Chinese TV - despite apologies from Morey, the NBA, and no notable support (that I recall) for Morey's tweet from any NBA player.
- US airlines no longer mention "Taiwan" after bowing to Chinese pressure.
- Holywood studios routinely self-censor their movies to avoid risking access to the Chinese market.
- Just a few weeks ago, a friend of mine got disinvited from a webinar on "ethics and citizen science", organised by a University in New Zealand - due to "circumstances out of their control" according to the organisers; the only plausible explanation is Chinese pressure due to her being Taiwanese (and working at a University in Taiwan).


What good does China do for the world?
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#16747 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2020-November-04, 16:58

View Posthelene_t, on 2020-November-04, 16:20, said:


At the moment it seems to me that China is a force for good in the World, and the best that can be said about USA is that it is isolating itself.


The US has *****ed up on a whole bunch of fronts over the past 30 years, but you're crazy if you think that China is a force for good.

The ethnic cleansing that is going on in Xinjiang is horrific.
There are literally millions of people in concentration camps.

I understand that the US is engaging in very much the same type of behavior (and I condemn it resoundingly). But the scale of what's happening in Xinjiang can only be compared to events like the Holocaust, "de-Kulakization", the Killing Fields, and the like. (Arguably, the extermination of the native inhabitants of North America fits into this same bucket)
Alderaan delenda est
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#16748 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2020-November-04, 16:59

View Posty66, on 2020-November-04, 16:07, said:



All of this goes to show that the USA does not really have a functional Democracy.
Look at those numbers.

The party that won the largest portion of the popular vote and is clearly preferred by most people in America by a vast margin is now stymied by a slug in the Senate.

Many of you are probably not aware of this, but the position "Senate majority leader" does not exist in the US constitution.
The idea of 'the Senate' is an arcane compromise so that slave-owners would allow the USA to be formed.

The so-called democracy in the USA is a joke. That is why a majority of the population can get the President they want but not the Government or laws that they need to live normal lives - or even to live at all.
non est deus ex machina; även maskiner behöver lite kärlek, J'ai toujours misé sur l'étrange gentillesse des robots.
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#16749 User is online   y66 

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Posted 2020-November-04, 17:38

I see that Abigail Spanberger, my favorite member of Congress, eked out a victory in Eric Cantor's old congressional district. Nobody works harder to represent all of her constituents than Spanberger.
If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
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#16750 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2020-November-04, 18:04

View Posthrothgar, on 2020-November-04, 16:58, said:

The US has *****ed up on a whole bunch of fronts over the past 30 years, but you're crazy if you think that China is a force for good.

The ethnic cleansing that is going on in Xinjiang is horrific.
There are literally millions of people in concentration camps.

I understand that the US is engaging in very much the same type of behavior (and I condemn it resoundingly). But the scale of what's happening in Xinjiang can only be compared to events like the Holocaust, "de-Kulakization", the Killing Fields, and the like. (Arguably, the extermination of the native inhabitants of North America fits into this same bucket)


It's not a morality competition.
This is where Americans love to see themselves as so much better than everyone else.
They aren't they are just as self-centred, greedy mean-spirited and murderous as everyone else. Often worse.

Stop being so sanctimonious. You don't get to be cleaner by saying someone else is dirtier than you.
non est deus ex machina; även maskiner behöver lite kärlek, J'ai toujours misé sur l'étrange gentillesse des robots.
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#16751 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2020-November-04, 18:35

View Postpilowsky, on 2020-November-04, 16:59, said:

Many of you are probably not aware of this, but the position "Senate majority leader" does not exist in the US constitution.

Clause 5

Quote

The Senate shall choose their other Officers, and also a President pro tempore, in the Absence of the Vice President, or when he shall exercise the Office of the President of the United States.

(-: Zel :-)

Happy New Year everyone!
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#16752 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2020-November-04, 18:39

I can still get $7 on President Trump but they are paying out on Biden already
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#16753 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2020-November-04, 18:42

View PostWinstonm, on 2020-November-03, 22:42, said:

The authoritarian personality is not based on political views. The term as used comes from social sciences to describe a type of personality.


I am well aware of some of the theories (and debates) around the authoritarian personality. Here is not really/perhaps not (edited, sounded too authoritarian) the place to discuss it though, and strictly I'm not sure if I am qualified enough to do so. However discussing certian political authoritarian tendencies and their views on how to control our lives in different ways would seem more relevant

EDIT Also, I'm very curious what happens with different configurations of Whitehouse and Congress - in terms of past occasions with similar (likely) configurations
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#16754 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2020-November-04, 18:45

View PostZelandakh, on 2020-November-04, 18:35, said:

Clause 5



Is this a stupidity competition? because you're coming first at the moment.
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#16755 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2020-November-04, 19:07

View Postpilowsky, on 2020-November-04, 18:04, said:



Stop being so sanctimonious. You don't get to be cleaner by saying someone else is dirtier than you.


Learn to read shiite for brains

You're so anxious to attack other people that you don't even bother to read or consider what they actually said

Half my posting was devoted to stating that the US has committed all sorts of egregious actions. However, the other half did indeed point out that China is doing some damn awful stuff. That's kinda required when arguing against a posting claiming that China is a positive force in the world.
Alderaan delenda est
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#16756 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2020-November-04, 19:12

View Postpilowsky, on 2020-November-04, 18:45, said:

Is this a stupidity competition? because you're coming first at the moment.

Wow, classic trolling. Write something demonstrably false and then throw out insults at anyone that corrects it. Congratulations. :huh:
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Happy New Year everyone!
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#16757 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2020-November-04, 19:32

View Posthrothgar, on 2020-November-04, 19:07, said:

Learn to read shiite for brains

You're so anxious to attack other people that you don't even bother to read or consider what they actually said

Half my posting was devoted to stating that the US has committed all sorts of egregious actions. However, the other half did indeed point out that China is doing some damn awful stuff. That's kinda required when arguing against a posting claiming that China is a positive force in the world.


And stop saying shite for brains shite for brains. I was trolling you the last time we spoke. Go join Zel in the anger management class. while you both study Google.
Clearly, you both think you have brains the size of planets but no ability to use them.

It's hard to imagine two people that deserve each other more. Perhaps you could join the same ping-pong league.
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#16758 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2020-November-04, 19:36

View PostZelandakh, on 2020-November-04, 19:12, said:

Wow, classic trolling. Write something demonstrably false and then throw out insults at anyone that corrects it. Congratulations. :huh:


No dimwit, having the power to appoint a garbage collector does not mean that the office of 'garbage-collector' is a constitutionally mandated office in the constitution. Go back to punding.

Is there a word for people like you who thinks they're clever because they can look things up on the internet but doesn't really know what they mean?
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#16759 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2020-November-04, 20:09

View Postpilowsky, on 2020-November-04, 19:36, said:

a constitutionally mandated office in the constitution

The Constitution mandates that the Senate must choose a president pro tempore. It is a mandated position in the US Constitution.

Perhaps the misunderstanding here lies in the fact that the current president pro tempore is Chuck Grassley, not Mitch McConnell. MM's position is an internal organisation of the party and therefore does not have anything to do with the Constitution or with formal Senate business. This method of organisation has been in place since the 1920s. Anything else I can explain for you?
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#16760 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2020-November-04, 20:11

View Postpilowsky, on 2020-November-04, 19:32, said:

I was trolling you the last time we spoke.

You are trolling every time you post. We get it. Congratulations on finally having developed a useful life skill.
(-: Zel :-)

Happy New Year everyone!
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