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Power Double Double then bid a new suit

#1 User is offline   paulsim 

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Posted 2021-December-15, 07:58

Hi all,

1.- Direct Seat

1_____(Double)_____pass_____(1)
pass_____(2)

What do you think is standard practice for this bid?

1a.- 17HCP+
2b.- 18HCP+
2c.- 19HCP+
2d.- Any other?



2.- Balancing

1_____(p)_____p_____(Double)
pass_____(1)_____p_____(2)


What do you think is it when balancing?

2a.- 14+
2b.- 15+
2c.- 16+
2d.- 17+
2e.- 18+


Thank you all
Kind Regars

Paul_S
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#2 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2021-December-15, 08:24

This clearly depends on agreement with partner what hands you simple and jump overcall on.

My partner and I have extreme views on this and our simple overcalls are very sound, we jump overcall on rubbish in second seat, so there are some 19s we simple overcall on.

Also hand type matters particularly in 4th seat, because 1m-P-P-2M/3M are good hands but always 6+ so what do you do with 6 card suits outside these ranges, but also big hands with 5 card suits.
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#3 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2021-December-15, 08:57

Hi,

the length of your suit matters, but starting with 18 is reasonable.

In the passout seat the strength drops, but than again you have
2H as showing 10-12 with 6 hearts
3H as showing something approx. 17/18 with 6 hearts, so it again comes
down to length, but starting with 15 makes sense, if you have a strong NT
you have to double first, so I would keep the strength similar.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#4 User is offline   TylerE 

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Posted 2021-December-15, 09:53

Less about points, more about playing strength
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#5 User is online   mycroft 

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Posted 2021-December-15, 10:58

Bigger than the top of your simple overcall range. Whatever that is. That's a partnership agreement thing, like everything else.

In the last 20 years, expert standard has raised and raised the upper limit of the simple overcall - frequently up to 19 or higher. Sure, there are hands weaker in HCP that are stronger in playing strength.

The reason is that the auctions you post are okay, but partner has been known to be uncoöperative (1-X-p-2. Good, extra strength; not so good for future auction), and the opponents more often get in the way. 1-X-3-p; p- or 1-X-2(NAT weak)-p; p- and now you're having to show your suit at the 3 level. Even better when it's 1-X-3-p; p-.

Balancing double is quite a bit less, because you're not as concerned about most of these issues. But as always, be careful about "double and bid my suit" in balance unless you're comfortable with your next action being "no questions, partner"...
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#6 User is offline   mw64ahw 

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Posted 2021-December-15, 12:44

I view the Power Double as a replacement for the standard 1NT overcall in the direct seat so 15+hcp or 17+ with a singleton. This is in the context of The Overcall Structure. With the above sequence I would consider that roughly 19 total points plus playing a Herbert negative.
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#7 User is online   mycroft 

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Posted 2021-December-15, 15:37

While I would agree with you (and play it in my primary partnership), that's not what the OP means by Power Double, as you can see from the text. OP probably didn't even know there was a convention called "Power Doubles". OP asks "how much do I need to double and bid my suit?"

Yet Another reason why the Name of the Convention is Not Sufficient Disclosure :-).
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#8 User is offline   mw64ahw 

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Posted 2021-December-16, 04:14

View Postmycroft, on 2021-December-15, 15:37, said:

While I would agree with you (and play it in my primary partnership), that's not what the OP means by Power Double, as you can see from the text. OP probably didn't even know there was a convention called "Power Doubles". OP asks "how much do I need to double and bid my suit?"

Yet Another reason why the Name of the Convention is Not Sufficient Disclosure :-).

Hopefully my post will have highlighted this to the OP.

My answer would be the same regardless of whether the the initial Double was Power or Takeout.


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